[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] You've been around a while, and you're more of a, "Look, you've got to play the game." Kate comes across as very idealistic. 

[Rufus Sewell] Yeah. Uh, maybe he roughs … roughs up the sense of it. But these are both … Their ideals are the same. All right? But he's a kind killer.

[TITLE CARD: THE DIPLOMAT -  DEBRIEF: RUFUS SEWELL]

[intense string music playing] 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] And a very warm welcome to Mr. Kate Wyler. Hal Wyler, Ambassador Wyler. Rufus Sewell. Rufus, welcome. It's such a pleasure to have you with us today. 

[Rufus Sewell] Thanks. Lovely to meet you. Great to be here.

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] Season 1 ends literally with an explosive scene, and we, the viewers, are left thinking, "Is Hal going to make it?" But were you really worried about what was going to happen to Hal? 

[Rufus Sewell] I was confident that I'd at least survive to the next few scenes. 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] And we're very glad that Hal does, because he's such a great, great character. 

[Title Card]

[Intense string music playing]

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] We've seen Hal, the kind of alpha guy about town. He's very independent, and then suddenly, he's really suffered these terrible injuries. And there's a real vulnerability to Hal. How do you think that's affected him psychologically? 

[Rufus Sewell] As is often the case in real life, not all of the arrows point in the same direction. In some ways, there is something very nice for him once he becomes more and more conscious of the fact that Kate was so concerned, is so concerned, is so loving. But at the same time, it's a kind of grim harbinger of their potential future together, him as the older guy. There's that scene where he can't take his own shoes.

[CLIP]

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] Kate…

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] I am going! Can I take 30 seconds to find my ******* glasses? 

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] I can't reach my shoes. 

[Rufus Sewell] He doesn't want to be a burden. He doesn't want to feel like that. And there's a lot of that going on as well. 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] Is Hal upset towards the end of Season 1 about Kate's blossoming friendship/sort of sexual frisson with the foreign secretary? 

[Rufus Sewell] I don't think he's threatened in the same way, but he's a very, very attuned, sensitive person. And he can spot when it crosses over into something else.

[CLIP]

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] Did you **** him? 

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] No. I didn't. 

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] Were you planning to? 

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] Yeah. 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] Towards the end of Season 1, as the viewer, you're thinking, "Kate's kind of done with Hal now. She's going with the foreign secretary."

[Rufus Sewell] Mm-hmm. 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] Do you feel that she's kind of come back to Hal because of this explosion? 

[Rufus Sewell] I think there's certainly an element of that. Yes, it's certainly changed things. But I don't think he is really foolish enough to leap too far ahead with that. Sometimes events like this can obscure the truth and just complicate things for a while. 

[CLIP]

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] Or did the president tell Grace Penn to do the thing? Oh, I know. Let's have the Brits blow a hole in themselves and blame it on Iran. 

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] The president doesn't know about it. 

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] What the ****? 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] When you were preparing to inhabit the role of Hal, were there any real-life politicians or diplomats you looked to or studied?

[Rufus Sewell] Hal is one of these people who’s quite tough, and I had a very strong instinct about who he should be and what the relationship was gonna be like. I do all the research I can, and whatever resonates, and tickles, goes in. And everything else, I'll go with my instinct. Anything that gives me something. It could come from any direction. And ideally, not copied off what we see about the presentational aspect of this job.

[CLIP]

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] Hello and warm welcome. Welcome to our new pad!

[crowd laughs and cheers] 

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] I think I could get used to this. 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] The show's been such a phenomenal success, and I know that people in the world of politics absolutely, like, loved it. It's like catnip to my kind of world.

[Rufus Sewell] Yeah. I love it.

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] Which is great. Because we can be very snooty about stuff that's done in politics, and if it's not done right, it feels quite cringey.

[Rufus Sewell] Well, it’s very much, if you watch something that has anything, you spot everything that’s wrong about it. 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] Absolutely. And the thing that people love about this is that, yes, of course, it's, like, wildly dramatic and entertaining. But the kind of nuance of some of those difficult relationships is so close to the bone. 

[Rufus Sewell] Yeah.

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] And have you had real-life politicians sort of say, "I love the show, and I love Hal"? 

[Rufus Sewell] Yeah. We went to the White House Correspondents Dinner. Like, Antony Blinken is just like a big fan of the show.

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] That is so cool. 

[Rufus Sewell] And that has been really, really fun because it's a completely different world.

[TITLE CARD]

[whimsical music playing]

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] No.

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] Why?

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] He said a color.

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] This is. 

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] That is not a color. 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] Let's focus on the incredible relationship between Hal and Kate. You're confidants to each other, but you're also competitors as well. It's a very fascinating relationship. What was it like to be part of that, and what was the chemistry like between you and Keri? 

[Rufus Sewell] Someone said in an interview, "It's an unusual relationship." But it's actually not. It’s an unusual relationship to see in certain genres of TV. But actually, the thing about those moments, the kind of messier quality of a relationship like that reminds people of their own real-life relationships. And you can say that sometimes it's toxic, but at the same time, it's often, people make the mistake in relationships of thinking, "Oh, if we could just fix the dark bits of our relationship, we'll be fine." But the relationship is made up of that. And if you take that away, it's not the same relationship. You know, I picked that up very, very quickly, um, as did Keri. This is the thing that I think we both responded to so quickly was the fact there was a very real, complex relationship of equals whose intellect was reflected in their humor. And it … the humor was not a kind of stylistic escape, tonally, in the writing. It was literally how they thought. 

[CLIP]

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] What was the reaction? Did he make any calls? 

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] He slammed her head into the ground. 

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] He what? 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] Does Hal want what's best for Kate? Or does Hal want what's best for Hal? 

[Rufus Sewell] I think he wants definitely what's best for Kate. He wants what's best for Hal as well. But he really is a true believer in Kate. 

[CLIP]

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] I want to be vice president. 

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] You are the hottest ******* thing I've ever seen.

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] I know, right?

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] You've been around a while, and you're more of a, "Look, you've got to play the game." Kate comes across as very idealistic. 

[Rufus Sewell] Yeah. Maybe he roughs up the sense of it. But these are both … Their ideals are the same. All right? But he's a kind killer.

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] They are almost like a model tandem couple in some ways. But there's, there's great opportunities there, but there are great challenges. 

[Rufus Sewell] Well, I think the ideal model couple has friction. Otherwise, it's an echo chamber. You need someone who's gonna say, "You were a dick." The problems make them the ideal, but they also are problems. 

[TITLE CARD]

[Intense string music playing]

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] Does Hal sometimes think he might be a better vice president than Kate? 

[Rufus Sewell] In terms of his inner workings, he shines a bright torch on himself. He knows who he is. He knows what he thinks. He knows what he's gonna let you think and what you know. But I think the play is for her to be vice president. That's the opportunity that's coming up. 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] Do you think there's a point down the track where, if an opportunity presented itself for Hal to maybe jump up above Kate… ? 

[Rufus Sewell] I think he would do that if that was the best thing for his belief of what needs to happen in the world. I don't think he is privately ambitious. I think his ambition is quite public. I think he is genuinely a great supporter of hers. He is ambitious for himself, and he'd make no secret of that. But I don't think he's … I don't find him particularly shifty. 

[CLIP]

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] After the great and the good on two sides of the Atlantic prostrated themselves at your feet. 

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] That's not why I'm saying it. 

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] You finally condescended to the idea of being vice president.

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] No.

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] It was terrifying, but. Katie, you did it.

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] In terms of how Hal's journey through Season 2, I think what's really interesting is that he's very careful about what he chooses to divulge to Kate until that very bombshell scene in episode five.

[Rufus Sewell] But he's performing a role in which the roles were reversed when he was the ambassador. She was the one who didn't have the position. So she could be the holder of a secret that would be politically compromising or even legally compromising for him. 

[CLIP] 

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] How about you tell my husband? 

[Ali Ahn as Eidra Graham] No. No, no.

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] We do this all the time. It's usually me screening things for him. Now it's his turn.

[Ali Ahn as Eidra Graham] I think it's a no.

[Keri Russell as Kate Wyler] She's worried I'll have to report it. He's a guy without a job. He doesn't have to report anything. 

[Ali Ahn as Eidra Graham] Great intentions. Bad idea. 

[Rufus Sewell] So this is him given an opportunity to actually do for her what she used to do for him. For me, the difficulty was tracking how much he knew, what he knew, how to step around it, and how that informed his behavior in ways that the audience would not be aware of the why. But if they were to see the end and then tracked back, they would be able to see evidence of it, were they to look for it.

[intense music playing]

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] Rufus, Hal Wyler, thank you so much for your time. We love Hal so much. Honestly, he is just such an amazing, rich, delicious character. 

[Rufus Sewell] And possibly a bit naughty, yes. 

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] And quite naughty. But we love the naughtiness. 

[Rufus Sewell] Thank you.

[Baroness Ayesha Hazarika MBE] We love that wee bit of naughtiness as well. 

[CLIP]

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] Where's my phone? Get my cell phone.

[CIA agent] I’m sorry, sir, we don't allow cell phones.

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] Get the ambassador on the phone. 

[CIA agent] OK, can you call Alysse and find out when the ambassador is available? 

[Rufus Sewell as Hal Wyler] Get my wife on the phone!

[music peaks, fades]

[drum sound effect plays]